Many local citizens have expressed their disgust with Alderman Wogen's lying and some have even raised more questions about possible corruption at City Hall. You can empower yourself to help ensure that we don't encounter this kind of sleazy behavior in the future by:
- Attending council meetings at city hall on alternating Monday evenings at 7pm to hear what Alderman Wogen says first-hand and how he votes on local issues. Also check the previous meeting minutes to see how information is (or isn't) recorded.
- Calling the alderman at home (815-517-0384) and telling him that he owes the community answers to the many questions that local citizens have raised.
- Typing "Victor Wogen" and "Alderman Wogen" into Google Alerts so you can receive email updates every time his name makes the local paper.
- Writing letters to the editor of the local papers, including the Daily Chronicle, MidWeek, Northern Star, and DeKalb County Online when he casts a(nother) misguided vote. Also send a copy to Wogen Watch at wogenwatch@yahoo.com.
- Joining the discussion here at Wogen Watch by posting comments (or questions) on any of the blog posts you find interesting. Feel free to remain anonymous.
If we want greater accountability in local government, then our public officials must know that they cannot act with impunity. After all, the fate of our community is at stake.
- Attending council meetings at city hall on alternating Monday evenings at 7pm to hear what Alderman Wogen says first-hand and how he votes on local issues. Also check the previous meeting minutes to see how information is (or isn't) recorded.
- Calling the alderman at home (815-517-0384) and telling him that he owes the community answers to the many questions that local citizens have raised.
- Typing "Victor Wogen" and "Alderman Wogen" into Google Alerts so you can receive email updates every time his name makes the local paper.
- Writing letters to the editor of the local papers, including the Daily Chronicle, MidWeek, Northern Star, and DeKalb County Online when he casts a(nother) misguided vote. Also send a copy to Wogen Watch at wogenwatch@yahoo.com.
- Joining the discussion here at Wogen Watch by posting comments (or questions) on any of the blog posts you find interesting. Feel free to remain anonymous.
If we want greater accountability in local government, then our public officials must know that they cannot act with impunity. After all, the fate of our community is at stake.
50 comments:
It does not matter who asked Wogen to run. What matters is who PAID for Wogen to run. Those yard signs sure were not free.
Question: Who paid for Wogen's election campaign expenses?
Your Answer (with proof): _________
Actually, the yard signs were very in-expensive. Sorry, Conan, you're barking up the wrong tree!
Proof, please. The signs were not the only expense and of course, Anonymous did not mention who paid.
Barbed Liar T-shirts still available
Yard signs run about $7 each.
Diana-
Would you care to show us proof that all yard signs cost $7.00 each?
Diana, I love to say that you are WRONG!! Think again!
If you buy yard signs in bulk, they are way less than $7 ea.
- someone who knows
Okay, so how much are yard signs purchased in bulk? And which local printer gives such great pricing?
Any idiot can say, "Signs are cheaper than that." Not any idiot can back it up with an actual price and an actual vendor.
Since you are "someone who knows", why not share the information?
Typically, a nice sign that will stand up to wind, rain, and snow runs between $7-10 each. Of course the price will drop with bulk purchases but usually not significantly until the 100+ mark.
If you don't know anyone local to verify this with, Google it.
I'm still waiting to hear the answer posted by one of the many Anonymouses here:
"How much are yard signs in bulk, and which local printer is offering such a good deal?"
So, c'mon ... you guys come on here and dispute everything we say, using the "I'm an 'insider', so I know the truth and you don't" nonsense.
If you know the truth, and that truth doesn't involve releasing sensitive, personal information about the Wogen family, then why not answer the question?
What have you got to lose by answering? Wouldn't you love to shut us up by giving us the proof that what you say is true? Wouldn't you just love to be able to rub our noses in it?
Of course you would. You would love nothing more than to see this blog go away. Some of you have tried it by making veiled threats to the owners. Some of you have tried to "humiliate" people into not posting by calling us names. So far, nothing's worked.
How 'bout starting with the truth? Answer the many questions that people have asked for which you answers have always been "You're wrong, we're right, because we know the truth and you don't".
So, what is the truth? How much were those yard signs per sign, and who gave such a great deal on signs?
How can sharing that information hurt you or Wogen in any way?
I suspect you don't have the information. Because if you did, you know that one of us would call the vendor to verify the price you've quoted. And then we'd find out that you, like ol' Vic, are lying as well.
Then again, it doesn't surprise me that you would. Birds of a feather, as they say ...
Yes, Wogen's signs were very nice & stood up to the wind etc... You are welcome to google all you want,
but they were way under the $7 mark, Diana.
Brien-
You are missing the point here. We have no intentions of rubbing your noses in anything. We are only here to provide the truth if someone makes a false statement on this blog.
It is clearly your choice if you wish to believe us or not.
It might be our choice to believe you or not. But, you never answered the question either time it was brought up. What choice do we really have but to not believe you?
How much? And who were the signs purchased from?
You want us to know the truth, so now's your chance to tell it.
Why are you evading the simple question? Something to hide?
"We are only here to provide the truth if someone makes a false statement on this blog."
OK, so why not answer Brian's questions truthfully?
Someone said signs were $7. You said they were less than $7, but you refuse to say how much. You won't say where the signs were purchased.
If you're into the truth, answer the question! Avoiding the truthful answer is what got Wogen into this mess in the first place, and now, his own supporters/family are doing the saem thing!
Where's the beef, I mean proof?
Signs from Competitive Edge, corrugated plastic on steel wire, start at $8.40 per sign.
Diana please keep your nose out of it- You don't know what you're talking about! Who said the signs were purchased locally? I never said that!
Assume, assume, assume...
What's the big deal about the signs anyway? You guys crack me up!
If you don't tell us the truth, we have to figure it out on our own. Your fault if we get it wrong.
You spent $400 on signs.
How about the lovely mailer? Shall I price that for you next?
Go Diana Go!!!
These Anonymous people just hide and try to duck and cover constantly. Where is the proof, Wogen supporters? The more you people try to be evasive, the more lots of us wonder what else is being hidden, too.
By the way, this comment from Anonymous is interesting:
"Who said the signs were purchased locally?"
Yes, I would expect that Wogen would not have the sense to support local businesses!! An alderman who won't support local businesses where it counts, how pathetic! Competitive Edge is in the Third Ward, too.
What is going on with the rumors that Hastert will be quitting? The guy writing the letter is in the same association as Joe Wiegand. According to what Roeser wrote, voters don't like games and dishonest politics. But, Wiegand engaged in a bunch of games and thought the Wogen postcard was a good idea. Maybe Roeser just has more sense than Wiegand.
Diana-
You are wrong, AGAIN! The signs were not $400. No, it is not my fault just because you want to stick your big nose where it doesn't belong! That's your problem, not mine!
Boy, you guys are really getting all hot and bothered over some stupid signs! Way to go Wogen campers--- You really ruffled their feathers this time! Lol!
We wish the owners of this blog would stop writing under the name of "anonymous". We can tell that some of the posts are written by Mark & Christine Kahle. (which we are guessing are the proud owners of this site since they refuse to respond to us when asked)
I wish you'd actually read what's posted on this blog. Christine posted the other day and plainly said that she and her husband were not the blog owners and, if they were, they would do as they did with their petition website ... publish their names and their home e-mail addresses.
So, start witch hunting with someone else, okay?
Regarding the signs ...
The Wogenites are either purposely obtuse, or patently stupid.
The issue isn't the signs themselves. The issue is that one of the many Wogenites who have the courage of a bowl of cold oatmeal (by continuing to refuse to identify themselves) has posted that they want to post "the truth" whenever they see something "untrue" on this blog.
Someone said that signs cost at least $7 apiece. The Wogenite came on and said, "No, they were nowhere near $7". At which time, I and others asked, "Okay ... how much were Wogen's signs? And where did he get such a great deal?"
Silence from the Wogenites.
So, Diana researched locally, and found that Competitive Edge could do signs for a low as $8.40 each, provided you buy 250 (that would cost $2,100 in total). She was told that she was wrong.
She was also told that the signs weren't purchased locally. Of course the Wogenites would say that ... if you don't know which out-of-town vendors do yard signs, then you can't research and post the results on line.
But, dumb as they are, the Wogenites have not reckoned with the notion of "the marketplace" ... if Comp Edge can do them for $8.40, it stands to reason that the market price, even out-of-town, would be in the $7 - $9.80 range (that's a $1.40 price difference in either direction from $8.40).
Now, you could probably get the cost down to around $5, if you order 500 (which would cost $2,500 in total).
The main point is ... the signs, in total, were expensive. Which flies in the face of the claims made by the Wogenites over on the Chronicle boards that Vic couldn't have exceeded the threshold for reporting to the state.
Again, someone's lying here. It doesn't surprise me, but for a group that values the "truth" so much, the Wogenites seem to be going well out of their way to avoid using the truth on these (and other) boards.
" Anonymous said...
We wish the owners of this blog would stop writing under the name of "anonymous". We can tell that some of the posts are written by Mark & Christine Kahle. (which we are guessing are the proud owners of this site since they refuse to respond to us when asked)
Sunday, September 02, 2007 11:55:00 AM "
Hey, check it out! The pot is calling the kettle black!
1. Where is your proof that Mark and Christine are writing as Anonymous?
2. You write as "Anonymous" asking people to stop writing as "Anonymous?" Wow, that must win the most ironic idiotic comment award for the year!
Thank you for the lovely comedy tonight. :-)
By the way, if the signs did cost $2500, then Wogen only had another $500 to spend, otherwise he broke the law. We know he spent $300 in cash on more postage to mail out the infamous postcards. How much did he spend to have someone build the family values website, the one family postcards, the mailing list to put on the one family postcards, the postage for the one family postcards, the NIU students sent around the neighborhoods, and the door-to-door flyers? There are lots of expenses to justify. The signs are just the easiest to estimate (next to the cost of stamps).
So how about some proof that Wogen didn't break any campaign laws, hmmm???
Until there is PROOF, like receipts, then I am certain lots of us will continue to play parlor games estimating Wogen's campaign expenses.
By the way, based on how many times creditors hauled Wogen into court for failure to pay his bills, just where did he get the money for the campaign? I would guess he shouldn't have even spent $400 for the signs like Anonymous claims. Wouldn't it be a better idea to spend $400 toward a house payment? Spending what appears to be more than $3000 for a $6000 a year job is just plain STUPID. A part-time job at McDonald's pays better than that ($7 an hour for 20 hours a week x 50 weeks = $7000 with no campaign investment). Of course, someone would actually have to work at McDonald's, unlike being an alderman.
Hey Diana, I think your nose is just where it belongs! Keep up the good work.
You people really have a serious problem of wanting to nose into other peoples lives. You all need to see a therapist before your problem gets any worse.
You Wogens just don't get it.
This isn't about Wogen's personal life ... this is about his election campaign ... which is all public.
What he paid for signs and, more importantly, who paid for them, goes to whether or not Wogen, who already can't pay his bills, and has lied to the people, is also violating state campaign laws.
How many times do we have to say this ... if he had just been honest with people from the beginning ... none of this would be happening.
When the election results came in, I was like, "Eh ... Kapitan lost."
But then the whole lying-about-the-flier thing came up ... and it wasn't "Eh" anymore. It was a big deal.
We cannot believe how rude you are, Brien. Your posts are just downright cruel. We have been civil to all on this site and here you are talking bad about the Wogen family and/or supporters. For instance, when you said, "patently stupid" and "but as dumb as they are" etc...
All you do is assume, nothing more, next time try to be more civil.
If the truth hurts, so be it.
If you want to be treated as an intelligent individual, then speak intelligently. Make logical points when you speak. Use the gray matter between your ears, rather than emotion to make your case.
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I can only assume that the writer is as dumb as a box of rocks. Show some logic, insight, intelligence, as well as some concrete facts (not "I told you so" facts, but real ones we could look up if we wanted), and I'll give you more than full credit and marks for intelligent discourse and respond in kind.
You spout "facts" like *we're* stupid. Like we don't understand how those signs could *not* cost less than $7 per unless you bought on the order of 500-750 of them. Which put the total cost at between $2,500 and $3,750 for the lot. That's pretty doggone close (if not over, in the second case) to the campaign limits.
What, you don't think we can do the math? That we know that you cannot hope to purchase yard signs, from *anyone* for $400 and have paid less than $7 per sign? And you think I'm being rude, questioning your intelligence?
Your constant posts, passing off opinion as fact, or passing of your "facts" as irrefutable and unassailable, are insulting to *our* collective intelligence. Yet you have no problem posting your diatribes against us, or posting (without proof or even the offer of proof) your claims that you "know" what we don't.
We have court documents. We have the article from the Chronicle. We have actual voting records for Wogen. We have ... the truth. You have ... "Uh-uh. Not right ... because we say so." Hardly evidence for even a kangaroo court.
As for being cruel ... well, it's always a matter of degree. I don't think it all too cruel to assail the intellect of people when they fail miserably at showing one ounce of same. I don't think it cruel to expect civilized, intelligent people to offer concrete proof when asked a legitimate question, of which you have been asked several.
Being evasive may seem clever ... but don't confuse cleverness with intelligence. I have found that evasive people always have something to hide, and use the famous "I never said that" defense when they are found out.
You have something to hide, and I feel bad that Wogen has forced you into acting guilty of more than bad judgement of the people you support and associate with. Don't knock us because we are bringing his character into the spotlight.
If his character was impeccable (and no one's is, really, not even mine), we wouldn't be here. But he showed a horrible character flaw privately (and to voters), and it was exposed publicly. And now you all have to deal with it.
If you really want to point fingers at someone for being cruel ... point them at Wogen ... because it was his dishonesty that got all of you in this mess. Anyone who would do that, without thinking of the consequences, is more cruel to his family than I could ever attempt to be.
And that's not me, being cruel. That's me, telling you what has been proven by the newspaper and by both the Kahles and the Corrigans. Those are facts ... not made up, not evading the question ... but real, simple, hard facts.
And you can look them up.
Someone wrote, "You Wogen's just don't get it" "this isn't about his personal life"...
Well, you sure could of fooled us!
Just about everything that is being written on this site IS about Victor's personal life. There has also been things said about other family members as well, which we feel is very un-appropriate & way out of line.
" Anonymous said...
Someone wrote, "You Wogen's just don't get it" "this isn't about his personal life"...
Well, you sure could of fooled us!
Just about everything that is being written on this site IS about Victor's personal life. There has also been things said about other family members as well, which we feel is very un-appropriate & way out of line."
Then PROVE where Wogen got the money for his campaign and PROVE that he paid for it. It is very obvious that campaign law was broken by going over the $3000 limit. "Allegedly" breaking the law then becomes EVERYBODY'S business. Does Wogen need a court order to show documentation for how much his campaign items cost and who paid for them?
Oh, don't forget about the ads he paid for in the Chronicle. There were at least two of them that I saw.
As far as family members go, the thing in the newspaper about Brother Seth was found to be incorrect not by the newspaper, but by someone here checking court records. The mistake in the newspaper was fixed here and that subject was dropped, except someone was whining about it again.
That is not how that is supposed to work. If/when a newspaper makes a mistake, the person with the proof that the newspaper got something wrong is supposed to contact the newspaper, and the newspaper writes a correction. That is what professional adults do. I have yet to see any evidence that anyone from the Wogen family contacted the newspaper for a correction. So, if no one bothers to make the newspaper correct something, then whining about it is pointless.
But that's a good plan, holding a grudge against voters 'cause that just opens the door for all of us to hold grudges for the next four years, and the WFM can forget about getting any of us to "move on."
Wogen brought this upon himself by lying about the postcards at the Post Office. The other person was right. Had this just been about some nasty postcards, this all would have forgotten by now. Instead, it looks like people used the when there's smoke, there's fire and started digging. Sure enough, the dirt started flying. The more dirt people dig in, the more dirt appears and the more people try to hide and evade.
How bad is all this? What is still yet to be unearthed? How about some proof of Wogen paying for his campaign?
Brien- We have every right to question your intelligence, as you are still WRONG about the cost of Wogen's campaign signs.
At first, we thought you were very level-headed and we could talk to you to justify some concerns and/or questions that you had...
But, now we feel you do not deserve to know the facts since you have chosen to constantly make crude remarks every time we post. You continually want to argue & fight w/us about everything. We are not here to post for those same reasons as yourself. Our goal was to have some sort of resolution. We now realize there is no getting through to you or anyone on this site. You and others that post on this site cannot possibly fathom what it means to resolve any matter/issue at hand. You only wish to argue & that is truly getting old. We have put the truth out there all too many times, but you refuse to see it. You & most everyone else that posts, only lives for your or(their) next cruel comment.
We have decided to let you "stew" about it from now on.
You are on your own now.
You Wogenites have not answered one question or given any facts to anyone. All you do is try to mock and heckle anyone who brings up the facts. So take your ball and go home. I don't think too many of us will miss you.
Silvia,
Their ball is stuck on top of the roof and they can't get it down because they don't have a ladder.
:-)
****
Proof, please. Until someone coughs up a receipt for the signs, we have every right not to believe an anonymous person who just says people are wrong.
Show the receipts to the newspaper or bring them to the next city meeting.
Keep being evasive; that only deepens our believe that the WFM are hiding something, er, perhaps LOTS of things. :-)
My bet is on Wogen did not pay for the signs and he is afraid to let people know who supported his campaign. Otherwise, there would have been proof a long time ago. Or, another possibility is that his supporters became too embarrassed after the infamous postcards to admit to it.
On the contrary, Silvia, we have answered several questions and provided important facts as well.
You just simply have ignored our past statements. It is unfortunate when one is so close-minded as yourself.
You have answered NOTHING! And you wonder why I assail your critical thinking and reasoning ability?
You were asked ... how much were the signs, individually. You have not answered that question.
You were asked which vendor was used for the signs. You have not answered the question.
You were asked who paid for Wogen's campaign expenses (see first comment). You have not answered the question.
You have said that the signs were less than $7 per sign. You were asked how much. You have not answered the question.
You told us the signs weren't purchased locally. You were asked where they were purchased. You have not answered the question.
The only answers you've given were "No, the signs were less than $7." That's not an answer that can be proven, one way or the other. Prove it. Provide a price and a vendor.
If you want respect, you have to earn it. You've not earned mine, and therefore, I have treated you with as much disrespect as you have treated us with your constant evasions of direct questions, and your constant attempts to deflect criticism of your actions by calling the actions of others into question.
You've done the adult equivalent of plugging your ears and singing "la-la-la-la-la-la-la". It might have been cute when you were two, annoying when you were ten. But it should be embarrassing to you as an adult to have to still use that tactic here on this blog.
You say you want to "resolve and matter/issue at hand". Yet you've done nothing to resolve anything. You have answered none of the direct questions put to you, depsite your claims to be "in the know". So, you have no credibility at this point.
Given the lack of credibility in Wogen, I am not surprised that he has surrounded himself with those of like character.
I can sleep soundly at night, knowing that when the chips are down, my first response to my friends, family, and neighbors would not be to lie to them.
And as for "stewing" over you, Wogen, or people like you ... I haven't the time, inclination, or desire to waste five seconds stewing over you. I post my piece here, and move on with my life.
Brien, you just don't post & then move on with your life... You keep posting about signs for pete's sake! Just so you can rest easy, we will go ahead and tell you that Victor Wogen did NOT exceed the limit for his campaign expenditures. Now, you can move on, Brien. Or you can keep beating a dead horse like everyone else on here.
We also would like to make it clear that when we said we have answered questions, we are not just talking about this subject,(the signs) we are talking about the entire blog, in retrospect.
Conan- This one's for you:
You previously stated in the above post, "the thing in the newspaper about brother Seth, was found to be incorrect not by the newspaper, but by someone here checking court records."
That's a lie. If you look up in a past post (growing up wogen;absence of family values) You will find a post written by Seth's wife. It was Seth's wife, Lisa, that brought that huge mistake to the blog owners attention. Soon after, the blog owners finally decided to correct their massive error by printing only the true facts. Look that one up for yourself.
No, the horse isn't dead yet, not until WFM provides answers and a few receipts.
Some candidates use Castle Printech to produce their campaign materials. Which outfit did Wogen use?
On the contrary anonymous, I haven't read anyting to ignore except your shallow defenses and evasions of any questions asked. As far as being closed minded your accusation is way off base. So don't assume that you have any idea who I am or what my character traits are.
Wow, Anonymous is more clueless than I ever thought.
Until there is PROOF with receipts, the word of an anonymous person that signs cost less than $7.00 is worthless.
Don't you get it? People do not get to write whatever they want and expect all of us to believe it. Any information needs to have evidence, with documents.
Unfortunately, the same goes for any family member claiming to know anything. Next time, a copy of the court documents would be nice, showing the correct charges. By the way, even though the newspaper got the charges incorrect, Seth was still in trouble with the court.
And no, I did not lie--were we just supposed to take the word of someone writing as the wife of Seth? No, unfortunately, word was not good enough. It had to be backed up with court documents and the first to have the court documents was Wogen Watch.
I think the problem here is that Anonymous does not even know what "lie" means. That would explain lots of things, like Slick Vic trying to make people think he "misspoke" to the neighbors and newspapers about the postcards. Nope. He knew he took the postcards to the Post Office, he had something to do with them, so that is a lie.
Boy you sure are ignorant conan!
You don't deserve any answers at all!
You can't even admit your mistake, Conan! If it weren't for us writing here, no one would have a clue about anything!
You just remember that.
Nice try, Anonymous! I was never expecting any answers nor did I expect any real proof of anything. See, if I have nothing but low expectations, then Anonymous cannot bring disappointment. I personally never expect anyone to ever come clean about who paid for the postcards and who paid for Wogen's campaign. Saying he did is not the same as giving PROOF, and I never expect anyone from the Wogen camp to provide proof. Write all you want here, 'cause none of that matters. None of that is PROOF.
By the way, I really do not care what an Anonymous person or any WFM have to say about me 'cause none of you people know me.
Have a great day! :-)
Likewise, Conan! :)
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